Curse

Longasc · Feb 07, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Let's do a quick check of the skill buffs of the Feb 6th Update:

* Hexer's Vigor: decreased casting time to .25 seconds.
Nice. Does not hurt anyone and is not too good. The skill sucked before, now people might consider it as a weak self-heal.

* Chilblains: increased number of enchantments removed to 1..2.
I only use it in PvE, nice buff.

* Plague Touch: increased number of conditions transferred to 1..3.
The break point for 2 conditions is 4 curses. This is more a buff for Necro secondaries than Necros themselves. It was just adjusted to 3 conditions like the area effect spell Plague Sending, and the breakpoint lowered.

* Blood is Power: decreased Energy cost to 1.
Together with Masochism it even gives back energy. Nice. The huge 33% sacrifice is the problem, after all. So the 1 HP BiP Necro will still exist, and I do not really see this getting used in PvP at all in future. So it is basically a buff... but does not change anything IMO.

* Wallow's Bite: decreased Energy cost to 1.
I would like to say NICE... but it does not change anything. Necros will not use it, and Touch Rangers do not really need it. Nobody liked this touch range skill before and nobody will use it now, except in the RA builds that are popping up that capitalize mainly on dark pact + vamp spirit anyways!

* Touch of Agony: decreased Energy cost to 1.
Same as above.

* Dark Pact: decreased Energy cost to 1.
Cool! This makes it a good partner of blood of the aggressor. The damage is still weak, autoattacking warriors can do better damage, we should not forget that. But it combos well with Vampiric Spirit and stuff like that. Good buff.

* Demonic Flesh: decreased Energy cost to 1.
The problem is that it is counter productive to many life saccing blood spells, so it still rather sucks, even at 1 energy only.

* Blood Renewal: decreased Energy cost to 1.
I have no problem with that, works. Unfortunately, it does not ADD much more appeal to blood magic either.

* Blood Ritual: decreased Energy cost to 5.
Very useful change.

* Offering of Blood: decreased Energy cost to 1.
Even unspecced, you get a net gain of 8 energy, up to 25 energy at 16 blood magic with masochism. This is probably the strongest buff, as it allows for constant spamming of life stealing spells like Angorodon's and Vampiric Gaze or other life stealers. Maybe Monks will try it again... the 20% life loss is still very dangerous.

What do you think?

I still see blood magic only used in gimmicky builds, as it was all the time before. In fact these builds get even stronger. Even a stronger Offering of Blood does not make a Blood Necro more attractive IMO. To have a real effect, you will need several other Necros doing the same thing! And this worked already well before the 1 energy buffs.

I was trying to think of a curse/blood hybrid and stuff like that, but the only idea I got has already been posted: An RA build with Dark Pact and Vampiric Spirit.

The change to plague touch is more useful for secondaries imo, but despite the many 1 energy buffs blood magic is in the same state as before: The huge life sacrificies are hurting necromancers much more than energy cost ever could, the blood skills either lack punch or are too strong. I have no idea how they want to balance blood magic, it would have to be reworked a lot, but the 1 energy buffs to some touch skills really do not change anything about that.

Ajank3r · Feb 07, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

I agree with you almost completely on the question of the change in effectiveness in many blood touch/sac builds using dark aura etc. However, I also want to throw out that a good bloodspike works very well with vent etc.
And yes, I realize that almost all other spikes are effective with communication.
Just to close out this comment I want to say that as a monk I am seriously considering trying to work this into a prot build, may sound silly but I think that the meta has changed sufficiently to start trying to run some of the older builds.

Cosmic Error · Feb 07, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

If you're under the effects of Blood Renewal or some other health regen, Dark Pact is now essentially free damage every second. Free damage=Good.

Carboplatin · Feb 08, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Dark pact is nice, but touch skills on a caster is just bad imo, unless you want to waste all kind of energy protting yourself.

touch skills with health sac? thats just a suicide if you run into any kind of decent melee charaters.

Draginvry · Feb 08, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

The only thing I see usefull here is a slight reduction in energy cost for Blood Renewal, and Dark Pact gimmick builds for 4v4 matches.

The other changes don't really do much for necro primaries. And it certainly won't make an impact on PvE blood builds.

Spellforge · Feb 08, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

How about throwing in Grenth's Balance

You can quickly sac yourself down to low health with the 1 energy spells (damaging 1 opponent) - switch to an unharmed opponent - use Grenth's balance to get your health backup

Then repeat - workable ?

Div · Feb 08, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

It will make the bad RA blood necros slightly less bad in general. BiP and OoB will see play in organized PvP as well.

Longasc · Feb 08, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spellforge

How about throwing in Grenth's Balance

You can quickly sac yourself down to low health with the 1 energy spells (damaging 1 opponent) - switch to an unharmed opponent - use Grenth's balance to get your health backup

Then repeat - workable ?

In both PvP and PvE rather dangerous. You would have to find an appropriate target within 2-3 seconds at max, before a lightning orb or an arrow sends you to the grave. In PvE, there are much stronger PvE skills, Necrosis or the Norn Shouts just to name a few, Ensign prefers them to Necrosis.

Then the question is WHY should I do such a risky gamble if all I do is some 51 damage every 2 seconds (Dark Pact).

Blood Renewal and Dark Pact as suggested make some sense. Aura of the Lich + DP, too. Unfortunately AotL is in Death Magic, but it should be possible to get some 8 DM by reducing Soul Reaping.

Ensign · Feb 08, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

In PvE, there are much stronger PvE skills, Necrosis or the Norn Shouts just to name a few, Ensign prefers them to Necrosis.

I've been running all 3 recently.

It's hot.

Moloch Vein · Feb 08, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

No, they are not very useful. The main use for necromancers is that they might be able to gain energy from the sacrifices (Masochism synergy) which can fuel some other stuff.

Blood is severely lacking in value and utility and should be buffed a lot more and a lot more intelligently than this.

Suggestions on how to improve the attraction of N Blood for balanced teams.

Foul Feast -> I have been trying to find ANYTHING to slap on this skill. It's a placeholder that is COMPLETELY useless as it is now.

Suggestion: You steal x...y health from target. For each condition on target foe, you and your party steals 0...1...2(?) (maybe only 1 at say 8 Blood) energy.

Mark of Fury -> Affects Target and Adjacent, to give Blood a useful AoE hex.

Oppressive Gaze - Target + Adjacent take x..y damage. If any v50HP, give weakness and adjacent allies lose 1...2 conditions.

... and the most fun thing that will never be added but whatever:

ADD: Masochist Insignia

Reduces Sacrifice cost by 25% (stacking).

(Sorry for two posts but I get timeouts)

Biostem · Feb 09, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Frankly, I would have preferred to get dark pact's health sacrifice lowered; make it a 5% sacrifice and 3 energy or up the damage.

If you're going blood, and you're using masochism, then using it + blood renewal + dark pact is basically free damage, but you have to be careful not to out pace your ability to self-heal.

Regardless, as pointed out by others, touch skills are pretty awful for a caster, and since necro primaries already have energy management w/ soul reaping, the lowered costs won't make a huge difference.

The changes do make some previously passed-over skills worth another look, but it's not as big of a change as I would have thought.

Moloch Vein · Feb 09, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

The standard HP for a PvP toon is around 600. At Blood Magic 14 (12+1+1) Dark Pact does 45 damage and sacrifices 60 hit points.

For these types of spells to be viable they need to do around 60, possibly a bit more, at 14 Blood. The alternative is to lower the sacrifice.

Draginvry · Feb 12, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The alternative is to lower the sacrifice.

Dark Pact has needed a 5% sac rate for a very, very long time.

Qdq Swi · Feb 22, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Bah.. Blood was always Bah, now.. It's just bleh. But as was said.. It'd make the gimicky builds a little better.. Which never hurts anyone.

KalleDamos · Feb 23, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Here are some suggestions that could make blood a more viable skill line. These are just things I think would make blood better.

*Blood Drinker-Reduce casting time to 1 second or reduce to 1 second and reduce health stolen

*Dark Pact- Reduce energy and sacrifce cost to 5. Makes it almost on par with BotA

*Life Transfer- Reduce recharge to 20 seconds or increse duration to 10...15

*Lifebane and Shadow strike - Reduce cast time to 1 second, reduce damage and life stealing(only slightly)

*Soul Leech- Reduce cast time to 1 second

Those are just some changes i think would make blood more viable.

neoflame · Feb 23, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

^ because what GW really needs is faster bloodspikes

Cosmic Error · Feb 23, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

^ because what GW really needs is faster bloodspikes

Yes, GW DOES need faster blood spikes. Energy costs aside, they have too long of recharge times to be used as a primary method of dealing damage.

neoflame · Feb 23, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Error

Yes, GW DOES need faster blood spikes. Energy costs aside, they have too long of recharge times to be used as a primary method of dealing damage.

...fail. Prot-ignoring damage isn't feasible as a primary method of dealing damage? Cry me a red engine go river, I hope it stays that way. Blood Magic needs a rework so that it's not all about degenerate 321 spiking, and tbh if that means it's going to be an attribute like ancient Inspiration Magic (via buffs to stuff like Blood Ritual) then so be it.

KalleDamos · Feb 23, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

...fail. Prot-ignoring damage isn't feasible as a primary method of dealing damage? Cry me a red engine go river, I hope it stays that way. Blood Magic needs a rework so that it's not all about degenerate 321 spiking, and tbh if that means it's going to be an attribute like ancient Inspiration Magic (via buffs to stuff like Blood Ritual) then so be it.

Blood magic needs a buff. It is rather lame right now, on par with I'd say Illusion and Motivation. There are working builds but not very good. It does not to be a total rework, but some skills need to be buffed!

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 23, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

One great way to buff Blood Magic is to give LT a 1 second cast and 10 second recharge. Come on! You know LT seemed like such an awesome skill as a new Nec. Let's bring back that joy we all once knew. You'll be able to degen like a herd of heretics. Though, it would probably still suck as an elite, it might make life sacrifice skills easier to use.

EDIT: And yes, I know that even mentioning LT in the Necromancer section is a serious faux pas, but it had to happen in a thread about buffing blood skills.